Cycle only roundabout - Good Idea or not?

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8 January, 2015 - 13:43
#1
esde84
Cycle only roundabout - Good Idea or not?

I am after some views on a concept that a local council has shown. The design I have seen is for a specific area, but the plans are currently not public and cannot be shared.

The idea that has been shown is having a roundabout that is just for cyclists. The area were it will be used is expected to have a high number of users (by local standards).

As I cannot show the plans, I have crudely drawn an diagram that loosely shows how the junction will work (bottom), and my interpretation of how the cycle paths meet without the roundabout (top). The drawing is avaialble here https://www.flickr.com/photos/esde84/16203157706/

Some notes, the left and right sides of the cycle path (in the drawing) would continue as fully seprated paths for a long distance. The Two way path at the top, joins a cul-de-sac road with very low motor traffic volumes. The one way paths at the botom would cross a road (with cyclists having priority as the plans currently stand) before providing seperated paths along a one way road.

My current feelings for the roundabout design is that it may be over the top for what is needed, but if implemented well, it would simplify the interaction between cyclists through the junction.

Where cycle paths meet in the Netherlands, it seems common for a more laid back appoach where cyclists negotiate their way through, as discussed here https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/can-there-ever-be-too-many-people-cycling/. Due to this, this makes me feel that the roundabout for what is locally a high number number of cyclists is too much.

However with me trying to think along the lines of sustainable safety, simplifying how a user interacts at the junction, makes it less likely for collisions at the junction as the users only have to think about other users coming from their right, rather than considering every direction and possible movement.

Is anybody aware of any examples of cycle only roundabouts (google map links, blog posts, etc.), that I could look at to help gain a greater understanding of whether this is a good idea or not? Does anybody have any particluar views on this, that could help me form a more considered opinion?

Thank you,
Scott

Submitted by esde84 on 8 January, 2015 - 13:43
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8 January, 2015 - 14:54
GeorgeRiches

Go to google streetview and put
52.406750, -1.504000
in the search box. You should see a 4-way junction without roundabout or traffic lights which works for cars, buses and the rare lorry.
I don't mind cycling though it.

Submitted by GeorgeRiches on 8 January, 2015 - 14:54
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8 January, 2015 - 15:23
Roland

here some examples cycle-only roundabouts without judging of good/bad practice:

France: http://www.2mecs.de/wp/2013/11/kreisverkehr-23-lacanau-ocean-fahrrad-kre...

France2:  3rd picture here: https://karategurus.wordpress.com/2011/06/19/frankreich-tag-3-weiter-gehts/ or direct link: https://karategurus.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/p1030085.jpg

Stockholm:  9th picture here: http://aufindennorden-abschnitt-016.blogspot.co.at/ or direct link: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SzP2X5jLFDk/Us1Qy6oP4QI/AAAAAAAADRE/Ck1ZPmkjj1...

Denmark: 6th picture here: http://www.tobis-page.de/fotos/fahrrad/2012/ or direct link: http://www.tobis-page.de/fotos/fahrrad/2012/06_kreisverkehr.jpg

Denmark2: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bicycle_roundabout_Overlund_2012-...

Vienna: (Children cycling training park :) ) picture 2 on the left:  http://www.bg8.at/inhalt/ausflug-der-1c-den-verkehrsgarten

 


 

Submitted by Roland on 8 January, 2015 - 15:23
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8 January, 2015 - 16:40
mjray

A non-motorised roundabout was proposed for the junction of the Blackfriars Road, St John's Walk and St James Terrace in King's Lynn (in the background of http://cycle.st/p38199 next to the bend in the A road) as part of a refurbishment project for the listed landscape about a decade ago. I may still have the designs somewhere. It was not built and a simple give-way marking (now almost worn out) was put across the exit of the Blackfriars Road cycleway (which runs slightly downhill, so arguably should give way) instead. No recent collisions have been recorded at that junction. The next junction north (with the rail station car/cycle park exit) is far more dangerous.

I believe the reasons for rejecting a mini-roundabout were paint would be slippier (in a tree-lined area, it's already bad enough), it would require more frequent maintenance, it would limit capacity (this close to the railway station and town centre, user flows are very tidal at times) and it would create conflict between cyclists who should know how to use a roundabout and walkers who need not.

I don't recall using a cycle-only roundabout. Even in Milton Keynes, where there's a street light in the middle of a large junction, people were allowed to go either side. Visibility is the key. I know it can be annoying to brake because someone else jumped out, but cyclists never "only have to think about other users coming from their right" - ultimately, it's better not to be on the floor. Good driving instructors teach this too: you look at the roads you're about to cross even if you have priority. You never know if there's a nutter ploughing in, or an emergency motorbike weaving its way through or whatever. It's part of Highway Code Rule 170 "look all around before emerging. Do not cross or join a road until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely" - sorry if that's laying it on far too thick but I think what you wrote was not in line with sustainable safety. Simplify yes: assume everyone obeys the rules no.

Submitted by mjray on 8 January, 2015 - 16:40
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9 January, 2015 - 15:48
narrowboat

I spend a lot of time in Netherlands - I know of few pure cycle roundabouts but look at Google earth 52 degrees 08' 30.82"N and 4 degrees 29' 13.61"E to see one such in Leiden.

Often in Holland, when cycle tracks parallel main roads then, when they get to a roundabout, the cycle tracks run around the outside of the traffic lanes (generally with priority for cycles over cars where the cycle track crosses the traffic lane).

 

Chris

Submitted by narrowboat on 9 January, 2015 - 15:48
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9 January, 2015 - 15:48
narrowboat

I spend a lot of time in Netherlands - I know of few pure cycle roundabouts but look at Google earth 52 degrees 08' 30.82"N and 4 degrees 29' 13.61"E to see one such in Leiden.

Often in Holland, when cycle tracks parallel main roads then, when they get to a roundabout, the cycle tracks run around the outside of the traffic lanes (generally with priority for cycles over cars where the cycle track crosses the traffic lane).

 

Chris

Submitted by narrowboat on 9 January, 2015 - 15:48
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10 January, 2015 - 00:19
eldering

I'm Dutch and I cannot remember ever having cycled over a cycle-only roundabout. The only Dutch one I've seen here in the weekly cycling facility of the month:

http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/photos/good-cycling-facility-of-the-we...

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of (busy) cycle path junctions in The Netherlands, that work perfectly well, as you observed with a "laid back approach" design. Only one such example is the "Berekuil" in Utrecht, (a poor streetview from the carriageway here: http://goo.gl/maps/kp6CQ), where multiple cyclepaths join up, including a major route from Utrecht city centre to university campus. See also Mark Wagenbuur's latest blogpost https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/rush-hour-in-the-dark/ showing that things still work well when it's really busy without rigid design.

My conclusion: a roundabout is overkill and only inconveniencing unless done like in the first link, where plenty of space is provided so that cyclists can go straight along their desire lines. The point is not to think that cyclists are like cars and that chaos would ensue without fully rigid road discipline.

Submitted by eldering on 10 January, 2015 - 00:19
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11 January, 2015 - 01:14
(Reply to #7)
pete owens

There is this rather strange example in Warrington:

https://goo.gl/maps/2skXi

Probably intended for artistic effect rather than traffic management.

Submitted by pete owens on 11 January, 2015 - 01:14
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12 January, 2015 - 11:56
esde84

Thank you for all the replies so far.

From the replies, I have seen a number of good cycle only roundabout style junctions, which seem to show it is something that is tried elsewhere, even if it is an excessive design.

I think what is obvious is that if a roundabout is used, then the final design, will dictate how well it works. The example given in the facilty of the month, seems like a very simple and straightforward way of doing this.

From what I have seen, if the council decide to go ahead with a roundabout, the design needs to make it as simple as possible, over designing it and trying to treat cyclists as motor vehicles runs a risk creating a section that people will not want to use.

Submitted by esde84 on 12 January, 2015 - 11:56

Scott Dawson
NewCyling
@esde84
esde84.co.uk

 

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10 March, 2015 - 12:04
(Reply to #9)
Roland

there is a new one here:
https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2015/03/10/a-bicycle-roundabout-that-...

 

Submitted by Roland on 10 March, 2015 - 12:04
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14 January, 2015 - 19:22
Stoutlink

I am a London cyclists.  Many years ago  I used a roundabout at Chichester which at tha time was described as experimental.  It had a cycle lane around the outside butmI don't think it had a crossing at the junctions so was far from ideal

Submitted by Stoutlink on 14 January, 2015 - 19:22
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16 January, 2015 - 21:51
(Reply to #11)
pete owens

Yes, that was one of the dafter ideas to be tried out. The results were so clear that the experiment was stopped half way through due to the increased crash rate.

At about the same time, I remember attending a Cyclenation conference in Liverpool and went for a tour of some of their facilities. The cycle officer seemed most keen to show us an orbital cycle lane that had been painted around a roundabout. While she was talking about it, behind her a few riders were trying it out by riding round it and the number of near misses was astounding (and this was a quiet location on a Sunday morning). Eventually someone asked her to turn round and watch what was happening. That lane was removed fairly soon after.

Submitted by pete owens on 16 January, 2015 - 21:51
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12 June, 2015 - 13:13
iBikeDream

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Davis,+CA,+USA/@38.5460587,-121.7607445,70m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x808529999495543f:0xc3013f1b6ee28fff

Submitted by iBikeDream on 12 June, 2015 - 13:13
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